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iarba si antitopspin

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  • iarba si antitopspin

    salut, as vrea sa stiu cum as putea juca impotriva ierbi si a antitopspin (fete)
    eu folosesc :fete sriver fx si lemn primorac OFF-
    multumesc
    Butterfly Jonyer-h OFF
    FH: Butterfly Bryce Speed
    BH: Xiom Omega IV pro

  • #2
    vezi primul subiect din acest topic/pagina, cel marcat ca ”Important”
    TB ZLF & T05/T05FX

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    • #3
      Postat în original de vasi25 Vezi post
      salut, as vrea sa stiu cum as putea juca impotriva ierbi si a antitopspin (fete)
      eu folosesc :fete sriver fx si lemn primorac OFF-
      multumesc
      Cum poti juca impotriva ierbii? "Dormi" la sala si da intr-una in minge si atunci poti juca impotriva ierbii, si poti avea si succes( in funcite de cel cu care joci)
      Butterfly Matsushita Power Defence
      FH:Yasaka Rakza Soft
      BH:Hallmark Phoenix Ox

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      • #4
        acuma am vazut mersi.Am un prieten care joaca cu o fata antitopspin de cateva zile si nu reusesc sa il bat,mingea are o traectorie total diferita ,orice lovitura de topspin vine inapoi cu o viteza si efect mai mare.
        Am citit pe internet despre o tactica dar nu stiu daca e eficienta lovitura de topspin si un slice pentru a anula efectul adversarului .
        Butterfly Jonyer-h OFF
        FH: Butterfly Bryce Speed
        BH: Xiom Omega IV pro

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        • #5
          Teoretic asa se procedeaza, dar practic nu reuseste toata lumea. Cel mai sigur asa e: topspin/stop, topspin/stop.......erc.( dar depinde foarte mult de "mana ta" ), dar cei care simt iarba...... dau topspin pana nu mai pune cel cu iarba sau anti inapoi( sau pur si siplmu se distreaza cu cel cu material
          Butterfly Matsushita Power Defence
          FH:Yasaka Rakza Soft
          BH:Hallmark Phoenix Ox

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          • #6
            Traducerea, poate saptamana viitoare, daca o sa am timp.
            Glosar de termeni:
            chopper = botanist (unii ?i spun aparator sau ierbar)
            long pips = etnobotanica (pentru ca ?ti da dureri de cap) cu pinii lungi
            short pips = etnobotanica cu pinii scurti
            Esenta articolului: alterneaza loviturile lungi cu cele scurte, aparatorul este mai vulnerabil pe mijloc, nu da cu mult efect, alterneaza push cu topspin
            There is nothing more infuriating than losing to a patient chopper who lets you beat yourself with your own errors. A chopper is weakest in the middle, but you have more table (and so more margin for error) by going diagonally to a corner. Going for a winner down the line often catches the chopper by surprise. A chopper who is not particularly fast is vulnerable at the corners; a chopper with inverted on both sides is more vulnerable in the middle. Keep these “basics” in mind when playing any of the following styles. There are four general ways of playing a chopper. Informally they are called European style, Asian style, Patient style, and Chiseling. (Note - I added the "Patient" style a few years after publication of this article. It's really a sub-version of the "Asian style," but it's different enough that it merits a description of its own.) While you should favor one of these styles, feel free to combine them in developing your own style against choppers.
            European Style. The goal here is to bring the chopper in close to the table, and then attack hard, especially at the chopper’s middle. The chopper is too close to the table to make the return, and so misses. When using this technique, you should mostly serve short to bring the chopper in, and try to follow with a strong attack. Sometimes, however, fake the attack, and push short instead – the chopper, in his haste to back up for the expected attack, will have trouble with this ball, and will often have to make a last-second lunge to return it. Even if he makes the return (often a weak one), he will be left jammed over the table and vulnerable to the next ball, which you can promptly loop for a winner. If the chopper stays closer to the table to guard against this drop shot, then you attack. The chopper has absolutely no way of answering this ... in theory.

            During a rally, if the chopper makes a good return from away from the table, push short again, and start over. The object in a rally is to catch the chopper too far away from the table or moving backward so that you can drop the ball short, force him to rush in, and attack when he jammed up against the table. Alternatively, you can push a few balls, keeping the chopper close to the table, and then attack when you think he’s not expecting it.

            Asian Style. The goal here is to control the spin and pace of the rally. This method is especially good against a long-pipped chopper, but takes regular practice against a chopper to learn to do effectively. Pips-out players are especially good at this style, but many good inverted players also play this way. This style doesn’t work well against an all-inverted chopper who chops very heavy. Let’s assume you are playing a long-pipped chopper.

            Here the aim is to get the chopper off the table, and then attack relatively softly over and over, into the long pips side, but not with full spin. The chopper can only return whatever spin you give him because of the long pips, and so their returns are not particularly heavy, making your continuous soft attack easy. After topspinning a few balls, you find one you like and loop or smash a winner.

            Depending on what you are more comfortable with, you can topspin many balls in a row before going for a winner, or only a few - be unpredictable. Mix in pushes. Some players just topspin over and over, not pushing or going for a winner unless they get a very easy one. You should try to vary your spin, sometimes looping very dead, sometimes spinny. However, beware of varying spin returns when you vary your own spin. For example, when you give heavy topspin, expect heavy chop, and so either lift the ball more on next shot, or push and start over. Don’t fall into the trap of spinning heavily over and over – a chopper loves it, and all you’ll get are heavy chop returns, which can be very difficult to loop consistently.

            You can mix in pushing, but too much pushing will throw your own timing off. By topspinning over and over to the long pips side (but not with full spin), you can build up a rhythm that a chopper will have difficulty breaking.

            Try to get down to almost eye level with the ball by bending your knees. This will help your consistency by making the lifting easier and will get your eyes closer to the ball so you see it better.

            Patient Style. The goal here is to pick your shots against the chopper's push, and if you can't easily put away the return, push and patiently look for another ball to attack. Unless you have a put-away shot, you rarely attack two balls in a row. Instead it's push a few balls, attack, push a few balls, attack, push a few balls, attack, etc., until you get a putaway shot or the chopper misses. Most of the attacks should go to the chopper's weakest spot, usually the middle, sometimes the forehand. (The backhand chop, often with long pips, is usually a chopper's most consistent shot, but not always.) Most players attack by forehand looping, but you can also drive or smash, forehand or backhand.

            You need to vary your pushes to find a ball to attack. For example, a quick, off-the-bounce push to a chopper's long pips often forces a weak return, and any push with long pips has little spin, which you may be able to attack. A sudden push to the forehand can set up your own forehand attack. After a series of heavier pushes, a sudden no-spin or light backspin push can set up a higher return to attack.

            The advantage of this style is you don't have to deal with varying chop returns, which are where attackers make most of their mistakes. The disadvantage - besides the obvious patience needed and long rallies that you'll sometimes play - is that the chopper may start attacking. You have to find a balance. The more the chopper attacks effectively, the more you'll need to attack to stop that.

            Chiseling Style. I am not fond of this style. This basically means pushing with the chopper until the chopper either misses, pops up an easy one, or gets impatient and attacks too much. At the higher levels, chiseling is rare, but at the lower and medium levels, it is more common. Since I’m a strong believer that the game has to be FUN (it is a game!), I don’t like this way of winning. Unless you’re a chopper yourself (in which case SOMEONE’s got to push, and it might as well be you), I’d rather see a player lose by attacking in some way. You may lose now, but you’ll learn how to play a chopper better in future matches.
            Ultima editare de Sil; 24.apr.2011, 21:37.

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            • #7
              European style cred ca e cel mai bun dar depinde cine e aparatorul, daca e atipic si mai schimba si paleta in mana, mai si ataca...e mai greu. Dar sa-i spui unui chopper ca este botanist...am ras 5 minute! Traducerea google iar naste bancuri! Multumim de postare, o mai gasisem candva pe net dar o uitasem.
              Blade-Darker speed 90
              Fh- Butterfly Tenergy 05 fx
              Bh- Testing

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              • #8
                Nu am folosit google translate. Botanist ?i spun eu unui prieten care joaca cu iarba pe o fata si care ma mai si bate. Sper ca ierbarii sa aiba simtul umorului si sa nu se supere de acest apelativ.

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                • #9
                  joc cu iarba si am jucat impotriva ei...iata parerile mele:
                  -cu un ierbar trebuie sa ai rabdare
                  -nu intra in jocul ierbarilor fiindca esti mort din start...ierbarii folosesc mai putine procedee dar le fac bine...la 10-10 sunt mai relaxati fiinca sunt mai siguri pe loviturile lor
                  -ierbarul nu poate da topspin cu iarba cand ii trimiti un chop bun...la chop raspund doar cu chop si blocaj...dar nu te-apuca sa dai chopuri cu ierbarul...lui ii va fi mult mai usor sa faca punctul
                  -topspin/stop/topspin/stop nu e o solutie...daca joci cu un ierbar care stie tenis ti-o trage cand dai stop de nu te vezi...poate sa se miste spre stanga si sa ti-o traga si cu fh...
                  -cei care se bazeaza pe topspin in forta si atat au cele mai mari probleme...un ierbar ti le intoarce pe masa fara chinuiala si cu un spin mare si de multe ori diferit...asta inseamna ca poti bate ierbarii daca esti jucator bun si stapanesti ceva procedee...
                  -defectele ierbarilor le observi cand joaca 2 din breasla asta...
                  -incearca sa pui mai mare accent pe plasamentul mingii si nu pe spin...
                  -joaca-l in iarba cu mingi lungi,inalte,spinoase si cu viteza medie...il pui in dilema...nu va sti ce sa faca...daca le trage rar mingea cade pe masa din cauza spinului...daca le taie are mari sanse sa greseasca...daca blocheaza iti vine mingea sus si il trasnesti...

                  eu zic ca un ierbar bun e ca turnesolul...daca il bati esti bun...daca nu,nu...de aia nu i-am inteles niciodata pe cei care se plang de ierbari...
                  ---------- Post added 29-Apr-2011 at 15:00 ----------
                  trebuie sa variezi jocul cat mai mult...
                  tibhar def plus jumulita
                  gambler reflectoid 1,0
                  dawei 388 D-1 ox

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                  • #10
                    "ierbarul nu poate da topspin cu iarba cand ii trimiti un chop bun...la chop raspund doar cu chop si...
                    Nu subscriu, deoarece chopul poate fi cel mai usor atacat cu iarba, mai ales ca foarte putini stiu sa dea acel chop mortal, razant cu fileul.Chiar si acest chop poate fi fatal celui care la dat, daca mingea este returnata moale si drept cu iarba...Intradevar, probleme sunt cu acele topspinuri balonate, fara foarte mult efect. Dar incepem si noi sa ne adaptam. O miscare usor laterala,urmata de un contratac cu FH. Sau (la mine problema e in studiu, dar Rares Leorda deja e as!) intoarcerea rapida a paletei si bloc sau contraatac cu softul. Asa ca principiul filozofic despre unitatea si lupta contrariilor se aplica incet, incet si in tenisul de masa. Mai avansam si noi, odata cu cei ce incep a ne citi...
                    Levi SIC Gloria OFF, Fețe: FH Xiom VEGA X max black+BH Der materialspezialist Kamikaze OX red
                    Levi SIC Carbo Def, Fețe: FH Tibhar Evolution MX-D 2mm black+BH Tibhar Grass Dtecs OX red

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                    • #11
                      cred ca aveti si d-voastra dreptate...topspinul cu iarba il dau ca si cand as avea o fata"normala"...nu mi-e deloc la indemana sa tin paleta mai deschisa...si cred ca de aceea dau topspin cand mingea primita nu prea are spin...cand primesc un chop bun,asa cum imi da amicul meu,topspinul se duce in fileu...
                      cred ca jocul cu un ierbar e mai interesant pentru ca se uzeaza mai mult tehnica si gandirea in jos in decat deprinderile...
                      tibhar def plus jumulita
                      gambler reflectoid 1,0
                      dawei 388 D-1 ox

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                      • #12
                        sa joci contra ierbi pur si simplu nai voie sa joci cu taiate,(efect)trebuie sa dai drept.
                        Blade: Balsa Carbo x5
                        FH : Sriver G3 Fx
                        BH : Sriver G3 Fx

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                        • #13
                          Postat în original de gabyyy100 Vezi post
                          sa joci contra ierbi pur si simplu nai voie sa joci cu taiate,(efect)trebuie sa dai drept.
                          Lol ... ia uita-te la meciul Zhang Jike cu Joo Se Hyuk sa vezi cate mingii drepte s-au jucat.
                          In general primul topsin se da la mijloc, apoi in rever in iarba si in functie de cum vine mingea iar il duci in mijloc sau pui un scurt sau incerci extra in FH ... si repeti.
                          Blade : Donic Waldner Dotec Carbon

                          FH : DHS Skyline Neo 2 (tuned) - 2.2
                          BH : Haifu Shark 2 (tuned) - 2.0

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                          • #14
                            problema este sa si poti si Zhang Jike chiar poate !
                            Butterfly Viscaria fl
                            Butterfly tenergy05

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                            • #15
                              Ce este mai periculos: o iarba sau un antitopspin asta din privinta celui cu soft?

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                              • #16
                                Asta depinde de nivelul de joc atat al celui cu material cat si de stiinta de joc impotriva materialului din parte softistului.Teoretic o iarba friction less, mai ales OX este foarte buna pentru aparare, dar este foarte dificil de a ataca cu ea. Un antitopspin in schimb nu e atat de eficient in aparare, datorita buretelui care micsoreaza spin reversalul, dar ofera posibilitati mult mai bune la atac. Un joc total pasiv cu iarba poate fi fatal impotriva unui atacant bun, caci nu e mare branza sa inveti sa dai topspin intr-un chop sau un push dat cu iarba sau cu antitopspinul. Adevaratele probleme pentru adversar bun apar doar atunci cand jocul devine variat, agresiv si mai ales inteligent, alternand chopul cu iarba cu mingi taiate cu softul, blocul cu iarba cu contrele pe BH cu softul(prin intoarcerea paletei), topspinul de FH, cu mingile liftate cu iarba, dirijate spre marginea mesei sau in burta. Iarba sau antitopspinul trebuie folosite nu numai pentru a puncta din gresala adversarului ci mai ales pentru al forta sa-ti returneze mingi usor de atacat cu FH. Pentru orice jucator cu iarba sau antitopspin, topspinul si lovitura dreapta cu FH trebuie perfectionate la maxim posibil. Fara acestea, devii iremediabil un jucator mediocru, in ciuda ierbii de la care astepti in zadar minuni. De aici rezulta ca un foarte bun jucator cu materiale nu se complace in succese facile ci se va perfectiona permanent. Asa ca aviz amatorilor, ce vor s-o ia in acesta directie. Drumul e lung si greu si nu duce neaparat... la varf!!!
                                Levi SIC Gloria OFF, Fețe: FH Xiom VEGA X max black+BH Der materialspezialist Kamikaze OX red
                                Levi SIC Carbo Def, Fețe: FH Tibhar Evolution MX-D 2mm black+BH Tibhar Grass Dtecs OX red

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                                • #17
                                  Multumim pentru explicatiile indelete si sincere, putini jucatori experimentati explica celor incepatori din cunostintele acumulate in ani si ani. Deci a fi ierbar nu trebuie neaparat asteptat greseala adversarului, cunoscand materialul trebuie momit oponentul cu mingi spinoase si atacat cat mai decisiv. Am observat ca jucatorii care ataca intens nu se pot apara eficient, "cea mai buna aparare este atacul" asadar spor la cat mai multe puncte din atac!!!

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